Proven Strategies to Engage Reluctant Writers with Megan Polk [episode 8]

Hey everybody, I am so excited because we have a special guest on the show today, Megan Polk from The Literacy Dive. She is amazing and is a wealth of knowledge for all things literacy. And I will tell you a little bit more about her in a second. But I also want to mention that she is one of our presenters at Educate & Rejuvenate. So whether or not you’ve grabbed a ticket yet, you’re going to get a little sneak peek of what is to come at the event. It is going to be such a great time. So a little bit more about Megan. Megan is an educator living in Nashville, Tennessee, she has over a decade of teaching experience across elementary grades. She gained a true love for upper elementary when she realized just how large the learning gap was for so many of her third through fifth grade students as many would enter her classroom on a first and second grade level. She viewed every challenge as an opportunity and made it a personal mission to set out to do whatever it took to grow her students. Megan is a literacy specialist and uses best practices and innovation to reach students where they are. Megan is the content creator behind The Literacy Dive where she creates reading and writing resources that are creative, rigorous and comprehensive. These resources have helped assist upper elementary teachers who share similar challenges and have the same mission: to close the gap, increase student confidence and achievement, and to develop students who will expand their true love for literacy. Megan is dedicated to supporting teachers and students everywhere. She loves connecting with educators through Instagram and enjoys diving into all things literacy every Monday on The Literacy Dive Podcast. Megan realizes the power of collaboration and the positive impact it holds, teachers are truly better together. And I could not have said that better myself. And I’m so excited to have her on the show today. And one of the topics that she had listed as a potential topic was reluctant writers. And I was so excited to dive right into this topic, because it’s actually a little more personal to me. My son was a struggling writer. And as a parent, it was a little bit different than when it was in the classroom. So I got even more passionate about this topic. But it’s been so fun seeing him grow and improve his writing, and really celebrating his success along the way. And that is what we’re going to be talking about in today’s episode. So let’s get to the interview. Hi, Megan.

I’m so happy to be here with you today.

I’m so happy to have you on the podcast. Thank you for taking the time to be here.

Yes, of course. So my name is Megan Polk and I am a literacy lover. And I like to support upper elementary teachers with all things reading and writing. I currently live in Nashville, Tennessee, and I moved here from Houston about a year ago. So in Houston, I taught second and fourth grade, as well as I became a reading interventionist servicing grades K through five and then I became certified in dyslexia and started servicing students with that as well. So I am the content creator behind The Literacy Dive. And I’m also the host of The Literacy Dive Podcast. And I am just thrilled to be on your show diving into reluctant writers and how to boost their motivation, interest and engagement.

Yes, I’m so excited to have you here today. And I love your podcast. I was just listening to the other day and I was like, oh my goodness, I cannot wait to have Megan on the show. So everybody, make sure to go over to her podcast, The Literacy Dive. It is a great show. Oh, thank you. If you’re looking for another teacher podcast. So can you tell us a little bit about why is writing one of your favorite subjects to teach?

Yes. So I personally love writing. And I know that whatever we tend to love our students that love us just want to kind of do the same. And so I personally love writing. I did not always start off loving writing, but it definitely grew on me once I learned how to properly write. And so I ultimately wanted that love to flow into the lives of my students because writing is hard. And I always like to tell students that writing is a way to express ourselves and it’s fundamental to our day to day life as well. Yeah. And mostly students struggle with this, teachers struggle with this. And so this instantly became one of my favorite subjects that I love and being able to close the gaps and help students to find success is always my number one goal. So this is just something that I learned loving after I learned how to do it. And now I just love helping students to see that they can learn to love it, too.

I love that. And I agree because writing it can be challenging, but really, once you get kids going with it, like it’s so much fun. And I love how you mentioned, like bridging the gap with the writers, because really, what we’ve been hearing a lot right now is that students are all over the place with where they are academically because of COVID, and everything. So I think that’s become even more important. So what do you think is a common myth about teaching reluctant writers?

I think that a common myth, something that just pops to mind is that if a child is reluctant to write or just doesn’t like writing that there’s not much you can do to get them to like it, it’s just like, if they don’t like it, they’re just not going to like it, and there’s nothing that you can do. And that honestly limits us from the very beginning, on anything that we could implement, or anything that we can give to our students by way of an experience, it just limits them, because we think that they don’t like it. So there’s nothing that I could do to help them to like it. And so a lot of the time, it’s not actually that the child doesn’t like to write. But writing is challenging. And there are so many rules, so many elements, just so many pieces that come into the different types of writing that they have to learn, and kids have to be taught how to write it. Therefore, if they don’t know how to do it, they’re not going to want to touch it with a 10 foot pole. So teaching reluctant writers how to write and celebrating them along the way, is the first step to breaking that barrier. And those kids who are reluctant can indeed find a joy and find the interest within writing.

I love that. And you mentioned celebrating along the way. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that?

Yes. So I have had a host of students across kindergarten, second grade, fourth grade, and all the grades in between. And so often you will look at a piece of writing and you just might see all of these things wrong that the kid needs to do. And so with focusing on just one little thing, maybe that child used a period for the first time. Well, even though there’s no capital letter, even though there are just all the other sentences have like no punctuation, I’m going to focus on the fact that you use that period, and we’re going to make a big deal about it. And just like you did here, you can do this in other parts of your writing too because it’s going to help me as the reader to know where I can pause, where I can stop, and it makes your writing more clear. So anytime that you can just find a place, especially for those students who just don’t enjoy it or have a hard time with it, that’s going to boost them to really feel like I did something great, I can do something additional. And then you’re going to start seeing the growth and the interest take place because you are celebrating them along the way.

I love that. And that’s actually pretty much exactly what I needed to do with my son. So even more recently than in the classroom, I’ve been homeschooling my kids. And my oldest he is now in the second grade. But when he was in kindergarten, and first grade, writing was his biggest struggle, like he excelled at reading, math was his favorite. And I swear he was like, doing multiplication almost. But writing just every time you wanted him, right, just even one word. You know, he was very not happy about that. So we just had to celebrate along the way. It was like, Yeah, you know, at this point, like he was in first grade, he should be writing full sentences, you know, but he wrote a word and he didn’t get upset. And we were like, you wrote a word, you know. So it was so great. And we just had to look at that positively and just meet him where he was. So I think that’s so important. And just to continue celebrating, because that really builds their confidence.

I mean, that’s truly the best thing that you can do. It just makes it an enjoyable time for you on the on the end of like having to give the feedback and for that child on the end of having to receive that feedback. And I just know that it is just a game changer when you can focus on oh my goodness, like you used the correct blends for this one. We’ve been having trouble with it, and you did it and like those little things really, really stick with kids. And so I love that you get to do that with your son.

Yeah, it’s been a lot of fun. It’s kind of my way to like, you know, continue teaching even though I’m not currently in the classroom. It’s been so fun. It’s very different when it’s your own child, than kids in the classroom, but there are a lot of things that are similar too so it’s been a lot of fun. And kind of where we were what we were talking about, like building their confidence by celebrating along the way. Do you have any other ways that you help students build their confidence in their writing?

Really it is just the basic thing which I feel like is the standard for no matter what subject you’re teaching, but it’s to model it. Writing is so difficult and if you are not showing them I mean getting your notebook, getting a pencil a pen, physically doing it where they can see you doing it while you’re thinking out loud, everything that you’re processing, being able to verbalize it, where they can hear you and see you, modeling has been the best thing to help the kids to build confidence, because when we just hear it, that can be misconstrued, or however I hear it is how I’m going to do it. So modeling, providing scaffolds for support, I think that, you know, a lot of teachers are worried about giving kids scaffolds, because they’re worrying that the kids are going to become too dependent or reliable on them. But honestly, if the kids have never done it before, they need something to support them. And once they get that skill mastered, they are going to naturally abandon it because they’re not going to need it anymore. So giving them scaffolds that can help to support them, is going to definitely help them to build confidence. And like yes, I can do this. And definitely, just checking in with them. Having those routine conferences, I know that’s something that a lot of teachers I connect with, say that they like honestly don’t do, and I don’t fault you for it, because I didn’t do it before I knew how beneficial it was. And once I knew how important that one on one time, or that small group time was for kids, that is something that can definitely help them to build confidence is having that time to check in and support them, one on one. And then I mentioned celebrating already. So definitely no matter how big or how small that progress is being able to celebrate what that child has tried, especially if it’s something new, or if that child has a history of not doing anything at all, just making sure that you can make that a big deal, like pause the class and announce it make them feel like a star, that’s going to help. And then the biggest thing that I also say too is this just focusing on one skill at a time, Do not tear apart their writing, like I mentioned earlier, you know, I can I always find things that I can do better with but I have to focus on one thing at a time to really zone into. And then this is kind of like unrelated, but helping to build their confidence, not just with writing and completing it, but with reading is allowing them to read it to classes. And so if they’re nervous about reading it to your particular class, because they’re in there with grade level peers, I’ve loved pairing up with younger classes, like one or two grade levels below, and having that child take their writing to a second grade class or a first grade class and read it because then they are instantly the professional, they’re instantly the expert, and they’re instantly the star of the show. So that’s just something else that I like to do to build their confience.

I love that those are all such great ideas. And I think pairing the upper and lower grades, I don’t feel like we do that a whole ton. But when we do, it’s so powerful. And I feel like that is something that should be done more often. Because it really does help those older kids to feel so confident. But then those younger kids that gives them that like, you know, role model that connection. And I just think that is such a fun idea. So I’m so glad you mentioned that. And a lot of the other ideas you mentioned, like scaffolds and not being afraid to use them because they won’t use them forever. It’s kind of like, this is definitely different. But what came to my head while you’re mentioning that is like, you know, I’m potty training right now. So that’s obviously in my mind. I’m like, you know, I’m not afraid that my kid’s gonna be in diapers, or that he’s gonna be wetting his pants forever. Like, you know, my youngest. It’s not going to be that way. So they will naturally grow into it.

Yes, exactly. But right now he’s gonna you know, love that gummy bear, give me that cookie. Like, I want that for going in the bathroom.

Yes. No, that’s such a weird analogy. But you know, when you’re a mom, that’s what comes to your mind. You know, it’s life it is it’s I love that you shared that it’s so.

Okay, so talking about confidence, some other things that we can do, or also kind of to, like get kids writing without even realizing that that is what they’re doing that that’s what they’re working on. Like, it’s so fun, that they don’t even really start writing. So what are some ways you get your kids writing without them even realizing they are doing it?

Well, this is super important for me, because, you know, when I moved to fourth grade, and when I had my fifth graders in small groups, you know, some of them came in on a first grade, second grade level. And so I had a lot already kind of working against me when it comes to like the writing time. And writing, you know, with the block that we have, it can be so long and daunting for a child that does not particularly like writing or who has had years of negative experiences when connecting it to writing. So this was something that was important for me was like I have to get kids writing and I need them to write without even realizing that they’re really doing it like Writer’s Workshop. So some of the things that I love doing are quick writes, and that is just because these are, you know, three minutes or less five minutes or less times of writing. And it isn’t big and wordy like a prompt. Sometimes I will just show a picture on the screen or sometimes I will put one word on the screen on my smart board or on the whiteboard and I will tell them, write whatever you want and they’re just like what Miss like I could do whatever. And it’s so cool that they are understanding like, oh, three minutes, that’s nothing. And they already feel like they can achieve it because it’s not 30 minutes of writing. But in that three minutes, in that five minutes, they are actually doing all of the things that I need them to do. They are practicing their sentence structure, they are practicing, choosing a genre and writing to that genre. And by the end of it, I love having them share because if I were to show a picture of popcorn on a screen, some kids will write about the history of popcorn, a time they went to the movie, a time they burnt popcorn, how popcorn is made, where to buy popcorn, what types of popcorn exist. And so you have all of these different things that kids are thinking of, and I’m not telling them, you have to write about a time you went to the carnival, they get to choose. And so instantly, during that time, they also get to, you know, draw pictures if they want to. And that’s something that kids just don’t get to do anymore, they don’t get to draw. And so because they have that creative element to it, they instantly get the buy in, and they want to do that activity when they see the picture or when they see the word.

Some other things that I love doing are just exposing them to different genres. And so anytime it can look different from the basic narrative, or the basic informational text, that is a way where kids can be writing and not even knowing it. And so maybe pulling in something from science or history and being like, oh, you know what, we need to write a recipe for this, let’s try to write down the steps to it. And they instantly want to write down the steps of what to do, and then try it in real life for like a science experiment. The same thing with like, letter writing, something I love doing is saying like, Hey, I’m gonna always leave the letter writing center open, if you want to write a letter, you get to deliver it. And they love walking to deliver letters to an old teacher, to an administrator, to another classroom. And usually, I will give a heads up to those people because I want them to write back. But not only does it show them the importance of why we write, but it also gets them like moving around. And some of those kids just need movement. So putting some of those elements into your day is just like a great way where they’re not even realizing that they’re writing sentences and writing for a purpose. When I do have to teach because the genres are important to teach. And you know, when we’d go through writer’s workshop, we have to go through the formal teaching. But something that I’ve loved doing is I’ve personally love I’m obsessed with national days. And because I’m obsessed with that my students have become obsessed too, they are so fun. Like they are so creative, so fun. There’s something every single day, literally all over the world. And so my students instantly became connected and interested in it too. And so I created writing prompts connected to the National Days. And that was a way that I learned, I could get my students writing to the genres I wanted them to write to. But we could do it with a really, really creative way. So yeah, that is something you can be able to implement very easily in your classroom.

And something that you have in your room already letting kids write on sticky notes, index cards, blank paper, colorful copy, paper, construction, paper, whiteboards, anything different than their standard writing notebook, or lined paper is something that you can do, and you can get them writing instantly. And they’re not going to connect it to writing to an actual prompt or composition. There’s just so many things that you can do have them write small daily writing tasks, write about gratitude, what’s one thing that you’re thankful for today, now they’re focusing on one sentence, and it’s something achievable that they can connect to. So there is just a host of things that you can do with your students to encourage them to write, but they’re fun, they’re engaged, and they’re not focused on the fact that they’re actually indeed writing.

I love that Megan, you gave our listeners so many ideas. And I bet every single listener here can take at least one if not multiple ideas from that and implement them into their classrooms. That National Days resource can that be found in your TPT store?

It can I made them the whole entire year is complete now. I even did the summer because I had kids I taught summer school every year that I was teaching so we even kept it going in the summer. So those are in my Teachers Pay Teacher’s store that I can definitely give you a link and you can find it in the show notes.

Awesome. Okay, and then also so at Educate & Rejuvenate you will be talking about writing centers. So if you are just tuning in to the podcast for the first time we are doing a live event this summer called Educate & Rejuvenate. We have so many amazing speakers are going to be part of it and Megan is one of them. And we are so happy to have her. Can you give us a little sneak peek at what you will be teaching us at the event?

Of course well, I just want to say thank you so much for allowing me to be able to present at your event. I’m super excited about it. And just the amount of teachers and people who are going to attend who are just going to get so much value from what you are putting on. So thank you so much for even putting on this event. I am super excited, I’m going to be diving into writing centers. Centers, especially in upper elementary typically do not happen because you go into the readers and writers workshop model, and you just are in workshop. And that’s it. But I have found that when you can add centers, literacy centers to your classes, whether you’re primary or upper elementary, especially, there are so many benefits to that. So I’m going to be speaking on how to set up an Effective Writing Center, not just a writing center, but an effective one and how to keep it running smoothly. I’m going to be talking about what to put into those writing centers on a daily or on a monthly basis to keep it just fresh and fun and new. Also, I know the big question is, how do I manage it? How do I organize it? And so organizing materials and how to manage it best practices, I’m going to be touching on that as well. But keeping it fresh and fun for the entire year having this as a place where your students can come and find success and enjoyment and be able to practice all of their skills, that’s what’s going to be in it. But really, the biggest thing is that I use a writing center as a place to gain additional practice for all the various writing skills, and the grammar skills that I want my kids to continue practicing. I feel like as teachers, we never have enough time. But if you have a writing center or Literacy Center, that is going to give you the time that you need for your students to have that for review. And then ultimately, it’s going to be a place where you can explore a variety of genres. And I know that that’s what a lot of teachers struggle with is how do I teach all the genres. And so you can easily do that if you set up an Effective Writing Center. So that is what I’m going to be sharing this summer.

I can’t wait to hear your session just listening to that my oh my goodness, this is going to be a good one. Our attendees are going to absolutely love it. So if you have not grabbed your ticket yet, be sure to head to educateandrejuvenate.com and you will be able to grab your ticket to the event. It’s only $5. So it’s basically a no brainer to join us at the event. It is cheaper than a Starbucks drink.

I know I actually like you know, when we were talking about the price, we were talking about doing it for a lot more, but then we’re like, you know what, we just want so many teachers to be able to attend and get value from this event. So we’re like five bucks, it’s really a no brainer. If you are even considering attending, like, grab a ticket because it is going to be a great time for sure. I’m so excited. Okay, Megan so where can our readers find you to connect with you?

So I am very active on Instagram. My handle is @theliteracydive so you can find me @theliteracydive on Instagram, send me a DM if you have any questions about this episode, or just anything writing reading related on Teachers Pay Teachers. My store is The Literacy Dive and I rebranded. So some of the things you might find might say Miss P’s Style, but last summer I rebranded to The Literacy Dive. So that is still me if it’s Miss P Style. I do have a podcast, The Literacy Dive Podcast we mentioned earlier, and I have new literacy episodes each Monday. And I have a blog, which is just The Literacy Dive as well. So those are all great places where you can find and stay connected with me.

Awesome. And I will link to all of those in the show notes so our readers can find you and engage with you because you just have so much great information to share. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

Well, thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be joining your event. And I’m just so excited to be here with you today. So thank you for having me on your show. And I’m super excited to present on writing centers this summer.

Thank you so much, Megan. We’ll see you all next week.