What to Know About Trauma with Lindsay Poelman [episode 111]

What To Know About Trauma with Lindsay Poelman

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[00:00:00] You are listening to episode number 111 of wife, teacher, mommy, the podcast. What to know about trauma with Lindsay Pullman. If you work with or interact with humans, you worked with an interact with drama. There’s no avoiding. It is. Most of us have experienced some kind of trauma in our lives. So today I’m talking with trauma informed life, coach Lindsay Pullman. About what all of us should know about trauma. Our own personal healing and how it can impact us as educators to be informed on trauma.

 

So let’s dive in.

 

Someone’s gotta take care of you. It’s the time or resources you lack. Teacher Mommy, they have got your back. It’s the Gala Teacher Mom. They’ll bridge the Gala [00:01:00] Teacher Mommy. Between your life and class, you and your family. They’ll bridge the Gala Teacher Mommy. They’ll bridge the Gala Teacher Moms to me.

 

Welcome to Wife Teacher Mommy, the podcast. I’m Kelsey Sorenson, former elementary teacher and current homeschool mom. And even though I’ve been a resource creator since 2014, I’ve realized that printables alone aren’t all you need in order to thrive as a teacher or homeschool parent. That’s why I also created this show and got started.

 

Certified as a life coach to help you finally kick burnout to the curb and feel confident with whatever challenges come your way with the right mindset strategies and new teaching inspiration. You’re going to be well on your way to your best teacher life. Now let’s go.

 

I am so excited to have another [00:02:00] incredible interview on the podcast this week, I’m recording this fresh off of getting off the call with Lindsey. We had such an amazing time chatting.

 

And it’s been really fun and that change of pace to be doing some more interviews on the podcast lately, I was doing mostly solo episodes for a while, partially, just because of the whole, like, Arranging with interviews with the solo episodes, I’m able to just like, oh yeah, I’m going to just like record a few episodes and plan the content whenever it’s convenient for me.

 

But it’s been really fun to do these interviews, especially because I have been using so much creative energy lately to work on my book, which I’m really excited about. And I’ll continue to share updates about the book along the way. I got my first submission. Submitted. And I just got my editor feedback on Friday.

 

Super helpful. And I’m diving in. I am. Writing more for all of you. I cannot wait for this book to come out in 2024. , we don’t have a title yet. I will keep you posted when we do, but I’m just really excited to be [00:03:00] working on this to be able to support you, not just with this podcast and with wife, teacher, mommy club and all the other things we do, like our planners, but also a book that really will condense all this information.

 

I honestly feel like I’m just researching and learning so much more even just writing the books. So it’s been an incredible experience, but, , I’m also getting a bit ahead on the podcast so I can, you know, focus even more on the book and we’re going to be preparing for our winter.

 

Educate Amber, do you have any event that’s right. You may not know that we do a winter one too. We do the big event over the summer where, you know, we have two full days, tons of speakers. Like the teacher track, the parent track. It’s a huge, a big ordeal that we promote for months. Like it’s huge, but our winter educate merge of me is a little different.

 

It’s more intimate. It’s smaller is one day. We’re all together. There’s nothing prerecorded. It’s all live together. In the span of just, I think it’s like nine to three is where it takes place with the lunch break in there and everybody’s all together. [00:04:00] And the focus of that event, like educate and rejuvenate the big one. Is where we have speakers on all kinds of subjects.

 

Like basically anything you could want to learn is happening at the big, main summer educate and rejuvenate event, but the winter event is all about. Resetting. , It’s kind of like during winter break, you’re not like I want to learn about all the things you’re on a break. Right? So it’s all about, you know, resetting self care, taking care of yourself.

 

Having some comedy to laugh, we were doing a yoga meditation with Lizzie. Lincston I’m going to share even more about this. When we announced the speaker lineup on our episode next week. Which is going to be a lot of fun. So hear more about it then, but really excited that that’s coming up.

 

It’s going to be, we’re going to be all together. And it’s only for our club members, but we have an exclusive offer for you to join us in the club to be able to participate in the event. And another super exciting idea. I just had that I’m really excited. We’re going to be doing the first time at this winter educate and rejuvenate [00:05:00] event.

 

We are going to be doing and award ceremony. I’m really excited for this because it feel like, you know, nobody ever gives anybody an award for taking care of themselves. But I was like, why not? Why should you not get an award for investing in and taking care of yourself? I believe you should. So if you are a member of the club and you’ve been in, I’m trying to remember the amount of time we decided it’s either six months or a year.

 

If you’ve been in. Or it might’ve been, if you’ve been in since educating rejuvenate summer anyways. You might get an email. If you’ve been in the club long enough to have apply for this award, a ceremony where we get to celebrate you. And I told my husband about it and I was so bummed actually, because I couldn’t find it.

 

I went around the house to look for it for a second. He mocked up this actual like wooden award. We are going to send out to those who apply for this award. And we’re going to send it to you. We’re going to celebrate everybody who applies. We’re going to just celebrate their transformation that they’ve seen through coaching.

 

And they’re going to get an award for putting [00:06:00] that work into themselves because we want to reward you for doing that because nobody else does. So we’re like, why not? We can do it. We can do it for you. So really excited about that. Just kind of doing some new, fun and exciting things inside the club.

 

If you’re a member, be sure to watch your email. I don’t know if you might know you are most likely listening to this podcast right now, but we’re actually starting to put the episodes on YouTube so you can watch if you want, you’ll be able to see me and Lindsey’s facial expressions or, you know, whoever’s on the podcast that day.

 

And from time to time, I might, again, this is a podcast, so normally it’s going to work fine audio. If you only want to do audio, that’s totally fine. It’s still going to be on apple, Spotify everywhere. But we are going to start embedding the YouTube video in the show notes. If you would like to watch the podcast that is now going to just be another option for you, if you would like so super fun.

 

And I’m really excited as I’m recording this one right now, I’m figuring out my lighting right now. I look a little washed out, but it’s definitely better than it was before being super dark. So. Figuring it out a little bit over time. So. Okay, let’s get into today’s [00:07:00] interview. Last week, we talked all about the nervous system with Leah Davidson, which was an incredible and fascinating interview. And this one is no less incredible and fascinating, and it really goes hand in hand with last week’s interview because Lindsay’s work is also all about the nervous system and even more specifically trauma. And relationship trauma and Lindsay is so amazing.

 

I have followed her for a while. I love her podcast. I love the work that she does with certification that she has for coaches. I’ve been in one of her other programs for a bit. I just love what she has to offer. And she’s sharing a lot of that. Right here on the podcast today. So I’m really excited. And I know I’ve been talking for a little bit, so I want to get right into this interview, but first I want to. read her bio for you.

 

So here is a little bit about Lindsey. She is a facilitator for trauma informed coaches upon experiencing her own betrayal trauma eight years ago, while simultaneously you supporting her husband through his recovery from non-functioning [00:08:00] anxiety and depression, betrayal trauma, and in his healing from childhood and the sexual abuse. Lindsay Pullman became quite passionate about the resources. She found a support herself, so passionate that she left her career in public and derivative accounting to become a life coach after seeking additional training and working with women in trauma for over five years

 

she now trains coaches to do the same so that they too can provide a deep and safe healing possible for clients across the board who have experienced trauma. She currently runs an advanced relationship trauma certification program for coaches with the curriculum. She put together with a trauma therapist. Lindsey has a vision of the whole world being trauma informed in order to better support personal dealing clients abuse victims seeking support from families, clergy, and friends after being victimized. She also runs a trauma-informed coaching certification for people who aren’t yet coaches, but ready to make her career change.

 

She currently lives in the south of France with her husband and three children. She loves the sea, the sun, French cuisine being outside in nature. Mary Magdalene, traveling and more. She sometimes says if she came back at [00:09:00] another life, she’d be a tour guide because she loves exploring with people she loves.

 

Okay. Without further ado, let’s get into this incredible interview with Lindsay Pullman.

 

Thank you so much for joining us on Wife, teacher Mommy, the podcast today.

 

Hi. How is every, well, I guess it’s good to see or talk to everybody. I was gonna, everybody, but I won’t get a response, so just sending love to everybody.

 

I know it is always like the beginning of a podcast. You’re just like, oh wait, I’m like talking to everybody, but they’re not here, but they’re going to be . I love it. Okay, so Lindsay, can you tell us before we dive into trauma and all the amazing things we’re going to be talking about today, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do as a coach and just your, whatever you’d like to share about yourself.

 

Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you for having me here. So my name is Lindsay Pullman and I currently, um, train coaches to become trauma-informed. So I have like a. A full trauma-informed life coach [00:10:00] certification that I offer. And then for people who are already coaches or already, you know, doing some sort of coaching, I have an advanced trauma-informed certification as well.

 

And I got into that because, um, about, gosh, I can’t believe how fast time imp flies a little over eight years ago. Um, my husband basically had not, basically he had a very big. Mental breakdown. Like he came and told me about a few things he’d been lying about, um, uh, lying to me about, and it wasn’t like

 

Malicious or anything. He was just like ashamed about some of his behavior and, and, and then, and he was working as a dentist and I was a stay-at-home mom. And then within a week he just became like completely non-functioning and we realized there was all this childhood trauma that came to a head. And so about a year, maybe two years after getting him stabilized, he still wasn’t working.

 

And I was working as an accountant. I’d gone back to work and I just remember getting to this point in my therapy and my recovery and. [00:11:00] With the work that I was doing, um, in accounting, just remembering like, or thinking, all right, if I’m gonna work for the next 30 years, like I have to do something. I love, like I love myself too much to lose myself in tax seasons and, and all these different projects that blow up here and there.

 

And so I, I looked into coaching and I found, um. Um, a program that I went through and I started coaching women who had gone through betrayal trauma ’cause that’s what I had experienced with my partner. And so, um, basically like short version of that is I started coaching women experiencing that in their marriages with respect to porn.

 

But then I started having a lot of people hire me who hadn’t experienced betrayal trauma in that way, but they . Had experienced, you know, real trauma in some other way. I had coaches coming to me, lot of other coaching programs, just lots of different things like that. And um, and I just started seeing all the parallels and seeing really clearly like, okay, this [00:12:00] trauma thing, like this, this trauma is everywhere.

 

And, um, I think so every, like, so many people’s behavior and so I just feel this big call, um, and push to really, really do everything I can to help. Get as many humans trauma informed and nervous system informed as well. So not just nervous system informed, but informed enough to take care of that and honor that, um, so that everybody can feel more at peace with their lives and, and be happier and live more of like a life led by their intuition and not kind of directed by their unconscious nervous system, their unhealed wounds and things like that.

 

So, so yeah, that’s. That, that vision kind of promulgated this, uh, curriculum that I co-created with a trauma therapist. And I’ve been doing that for a few years and this is where I am

 

I love that, Lindsay, I love that you kind of followed that intuition that you had. You’re like, I feel like [00:13:00] I can’t do this. Like, you know, the tax season and everything forever, you’re like, I wanna do something like that feels really meaningful to me.

 

Yeah.

 

The work that you’re doing is so beautiful and amazing, like I’ve been following your work for a while, and I, I just love what you do and what you put into the world, so I’m really happy that you’ll be sharing a small piece of that here with all of our listeners today.

 

So thank you.

 

Yeah, of course. I’m happy to be here, so yeah, thanks.

 

So first let’s kind of talk about what trauma means, because I feel like that can, when people hear the word trauma, it can feel like such a loaded word. And so first, how would you define that?

 

Yes. Oh, there’s, I mean, there’s so many definition definitions for trauma, but generally it’s, um, an emotional response to an like, to some sort of event where, um, typically where we don’t have support after to like the support that we need, um, after the event. So it’s like a lasting emotional [00:14:00] response that often results.

 

Through living through a distressing event, or I would say, because you probably have a lot of women listening, um, a series of like chronic acute events as well. Okay. Um, and then what can happen when we’ve ex, you know, experienced something like, you know, had a circumstance where. Um, we have that emotional response and we don’t have the support after to process or move through that.

 

Um, our, our body or our nervous system kind of starts it like almost reorganizes and starts basically supporting you in living life through the lens as if whatever that event were, were, was still occurring or could reoccur at any, you know, could reoccur.

 

So yeah, it’s like we have . Like our body feels like we have these experiences like still happening. When we talk about trauma, like I’ve heard you talk, mention on your podcast like Big T Trauma and little T Trauma and [00:15:00] the difference between the two and some people might invalidate the little T trauma.

 

I don’t know. Can you define those two and kind of explain the difference and why we shouldn’t be afraid to label something as trauma?

 

Yeah, so Big T trauma is, I would say, is kind of like. Big T trauma is usually some sort of trauma that, like society has deemed socially acceptable. Like it’s, it’s unfortunately we, we so unconsciously hierarchize things, even trauma. And so, um, generally when people think of Big T, they’re thinking of like war, um, like war, sexual assault, rape, natural disasters, different things like that.

 

Um, and then little T is kind of more . Like the more acute, smaller, um, events that occur that that still cause trauma, but that people haven’t put on this big, big T problem and or big T [00:16:00] trauma in this space. And the problem with that is, especially as women, we tend to really discount or diminish our diminish and validate our trauma that we’ve experienced when like. We really can’t compare people’s pain, right? So our pain is and so to, because we have this like kinda quote unquote hierarchy of Big T little T, it’s really a lot of us unconscious unconsciously discount diminish our very real trauma, very real pain. Um. Even though it’s, it’s a very real thing, right? So like, even like emotional abuse to me is like a very big thing.

 

But I think in that big T little t, it’s usually put in the little t, little T thing, even though it’s such a mind death for so many people that go through that, right? And they’re

 

Oh

 

parts of their lives. So.

 

yeah. But people might like, like you were saying, like put like, oh, but you weren’t like physically abused or whatever, so it doesn’t like, it’s not as [00:17:00] bad or whatever, but like you said, it’s, we all experience pain and we don’t need to be like, just because this person experienced it in a different way, invalidate our own pain and the suffering.

 

Yeah, exactly. And it’s, it’s real. Yeah. So some other examples of little t trauma could be like bullying, um, non-life threatening injuries, which are still big things. Right. Um.

 

Mm-Hmm.

 

Fidelity, betrayal, divorce, financial insecurity is a big one that a lot of people don’t realize. Death of a pet, so. All of those little things. And I think the big thing is just if it’s helpful to use language to separate it into big and little, that’s great.

 

But if you’re using it in a way to, um, invalidate or diminish what you’re experiencing, then maybe just stick with the word trauma and

 

yeah, for sure. So why, why do you think so many times we’re afraid to label something as trauma? Like we’re like, we might have an experience where we are like in the like trauma responses or stress responses, like flight, fight, freeze, spawn, all of those. But we don’t wanna say that we are experiencing [00:18:00] trauma.

 

Why do you think it feels like such a dirty word? almost.

 

I mean, I’m just like, is it a dirty word? I don’t know. I mean, it’s kind of like a tab word. I think what what comes to mind is. I mean, we’re normalizing it for sure. I don’t think we’ve ever, I think the world is a space where we’re normalizing it more and more than ever, which is so needed and so necessary.

 

I would say that the reason people are weary of, there’s a few reasons. One reason people could be weary of it is because, you know, if you grew up in Western world or in America, like America is founded on puritanical values. And so, um, because of that, a lot of those al puritanical values kind of come through into our thinking patterns and belief systems.

 

And so oftentimes we have been so chronically conditioned to see how others have it worse than us, or see at least this, at least [00:19:00] this, like, we’ve been so conditioned to like. Not validate ourselves for whatever it is that we’re experiencing. That like allowing a label, like being willing to label an experience, um, that you had or, or we’re on the receiving end of is traumatic.

 

Um, kind of goes against what, where we’ve been conditioned. Um, another problem with that too is like, again, with some of these like belief systems and ideologies that do not serve us, especially . I don’t wanna say, especially women, men too. Of course. Um, a lot of, with, with these I ideologies, people think, oh, well, if I say trauma, then I’m like victim mentality, and I don’t wanna be victimy.

 

But there’s a difference between being victimy and being victimized by a person or a system or something like that. And the thing is, uh, Kelsey, that I’ve seen with a lot of people is some people need to have the appropriate context to put to their lived experience [00:20:00] so that they can label it and actually know what they’re healing from.

 

And so being willing to label and, and label what their lived experience was, to me, what I see is it can provide a direct and more deep line of healing. Um, to a specific event or to whatever it is that they’re working through.

 

Oh, I love that how we’re able to like define and look at our own experiences and you know, just . Acknowledge them. I feel like so often we’re just like moving on to the next thing. We live in a very busy society where we’re you know, next, next, next. Or, I’m feeling these things, but I don’t, I don’t have time to feel this.

 

I don’t have time to deal with this. I need to just, I need to grade those papers. I need take my daughter to her gymnastics class or whatever it is we’re doing next. It’s all go, go, go. And I think that, you know, if we can just take that time to acknowledge our experiences and feel them.

 

yeah. So many of us, again have been like. It almost feels like indoctrinated to be like, [00:21:00] to think that we can’t hold nuance to see the damage that something has done and the good at the same time. And so, so often trying to like share that something was damaging or painful, it’s like, but look at the good, like we just, it’s, you know, the people that we, when we share with people who dunno how to like

 

Hold space for us in our pain. It’s like not only is it typically our natural space to be like, oh, but at least the good, or at least you know, when I think of like toxic parenting or something, it’s like, but they still did so much for you. But it’s like, what if that can be true? And there’s still

 

Yes.

 

right.

 

Yeah, I was actually talking about this a few episodes ago. We were talking about cognitive distortions and that all or nothing thinking where it’s like it, you know, if my parents, like, for example, if it were, were trauma from your parents, like you were just saying like, if they did anything good, then it’s like, well then they’re all, it’s all good.

 

But it doesn’t mean that like, it, both things can be true. If [00:22:00] it, it reminds me, I’m a huge Taylor Swift fan of her song Happiness . Do you know, you know that one where it’s like. Happiness. Like both of these things can be true.

 

You might need to sing it for all of us.

 

And there’ll be happiness after you, but there was happiness because of you. Both of things. Things can be true. There is happiness. It’s like, yeah, they can both be true. Right? And it’s like a song about a relationship where she’s saying there was good here but there was also not good and the relationship’s ending.

 

So I’m guessing that like, you know, still appreciating that there was good in it

 

I think, and I think if we can do that with trauma, um, then when abuse victims come forward and try to share that, you know, something ha you know, so and so was assaulted, or, I mean, I’m hoping I’m not using too strong language, like assaulted by so and so they can be received, like if the family members are received or are trauma informed, if the family members.

 

Know how to regulate the nervous systems [00:23:00] victims can come forward and be received by their families instead of like pushed away and isolated. Right. And so, ugh, like it’s, it really matters when it comes to healing and humanity and, and, um, and victims being taken care of, you know.

 

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. If we wanna make sure that we’re, that everybody’s taken care of and that’s why we’re talking about it here today. And so we can be aware of it for ourselves. And also, like I do wanna get into in this episode, how we can be aware of it with like the kids that we teach, whether they’re kids in our classroom or our own children, and.

 

You know, just awareness of that and how it can help you be a better teacher in whatever capacity you are. So you can be, ’cause like you said, you have this vision of everybody being trauma-informed, not just like coaches, but like trauma-informed teachers. How amazing would that be every teacher were trauma-informed and every parent who, parents, children?

 

Like, can you imagine a world

 

I’m, I’m, I’m holding the vision for [00:24:00] it.

 

Okay. So, um, what types of, I think we’ve like, kind of touched on this, but I wanna explicitly talk about it. So what types of relationships can we have trauma in? So we’ve mentioned like marriages, we’ve mentioned parents, we’ve mentioned people, but it always have to be people, right.

 

Yeah, well I, when people go through my certification programs, we typically have, like, I let people choose a relationship to work on, because typically like with whatever your stickiest, toughest relationship, there’s usually some trauma there. It doesn’t have to be, but oftentimes there’s either that or some deep winding.

 

And so I usually say it can be a person, a place, a thing, an invent institution, an organization. It can be money. Money’s a really common one. Um. And again, it could be like a big organization, religious, or it could be like an organizational structure or a system.

 

Could be the education system. A district, a school. Yeah.

 

yeah, for sure, for sure. Like you can, it just totally depends on, it [00:25:00] depends on the system. It depends on you. Um, because we are also uniquely, um, matched, like our brain mapping is also unique. That something that could be traumatic to, to you might not be to your coworker, right? You could both sit through the same thing or observe the same thing or be on the receiving end of the same thing, and you’re both gonna have different reactions to that.

 

But that doesn’t mean that it’s objectively traumatic or not, just because it is not so, yeah.

 

Yeah. Yeah. So it’s really important for us to be able to recognize that too, like of where, where we might be experiencing that and how How it can really affect people in different ways, like you were saying, because we’re all mapped differently. So like maybe like if we’re looking at teachers, for example, one teacher, like she’s having just a fine experience at this school and it’s wonderful, and then for another teacher, maybe it’s not, and that doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with either of them.

 

It’s just the fact [00:26:00] that they’re different people.

 

Yeah, different people. Um, privilege can play into it too. Sometimes people are able to not have to experience certain ramifications or things because of different privilege, different varying and intersection points. And so there’s just so many different things. And I think something to recognize too is that like if you are, you know, if you’re working with someone and you, and it’s clear that, you know, maybe they have gone through a lot or that they’ve ex that, you know, whether they’ve experienced a lot of trauma or they’re recovering or healing from a lot of trauma, there is a way to, again, we’re speaking to so much nuance here, to be understanding and compassionate for those that you know, that we work around and work with while holding and maintaining really solid, strong boundaries too.

 

We can be compassionate, of course, but it doesn’t mean we need to betray ourselves or needs or, uh, anything like that because someone, you know, was traumatized or something like that. So.[00:27:00]

 

Yes, exactly. I love that. Okay, so kind of switching gears a little bit, I wanna talk about, so when people can identify that they maybe are feeling some of this trauma or their nervous system is activated, which . I mean, I guess we haven’t talked about a lot yet, but I mean when they’re feeling trauma , maybe we should talk about that for a second too, or that can be part of this question too, but when we notice like that this is happening or like we talked about the model a lot on the podcast, the self-coaching model that both of us went through the life coach school.

 

So we know this and I’ve talked about it on the podcast before, but what I . Definitely believe, and what I know you believe too is that the self-coaching model, it is a tool and not the only tool to use to better ourselves. And there are appropriate times to use it. And then there are other times where something else might be better.

 

So how can our listeners identify when they want to use like thought work or when it is they need to do something else? Maybe they need to regulate their nervous system or [00:28:00] ground themselves.

 

I think finding what your window of tolerance is can be really, really helpful so that like you can. You know, your window of tolerance is like this space where, you know, you’re, it’s kind of like a baseline space where you generally feel calm, connected, emotionally regulated, able to self-soothe, able to think, able to reason and learn and, um, and have engaged conversations about the past, present, future.

 

Um, I think of the window of tolerance as like our zone of powerful decision making. And so what I would say is like, if, if you have your . Um, a, an emotional intensity scale that ranges from a, like a zero to a 10, 10 being like incredibly intense emotion. Um, like terror, you know, really like, like pretty high up there, and zero meaning like zen basically asleep.

 

What I usually say is if you are like above a seven, maybe just like . Do some [00:29:00] grounding work or some, you know, practice, do some exercises to help you, um, regulate downregulate or upregulate back into your window of tolerance so that you can, again, use the self-coaching model to your, to your advantage. I actually think of a self-coaching model, um, in my programs.

 

I don’t even, I don’t even use it anymore, but like in my certification programs, but it doesn’t mean it’s not. Like it’s a cool tool. I like to think of like a manifestation tool or manifestation so that it’s like we’re taking care of our nervous system and getting into this place where we feel generally safe, and that’s the time to like think about what we can channel, you know, what we wanna think about or feel or engage or embody to create the results that we want.

 

Yeah. Yeah. I love that, like kind of like understanding that scale when you’re like, okay, if I’m at a seven or I’m above that, I need to ground myself before like doing any of this, like . [00:30:00] Even going into like thought work of any kind, like that is not the time to be doing the, um, and that’s like a top down approach, like we’ve talked about that before in the podcast.

 

Like top down is when we’re looking at our brain and then other times we want to go into our body and see what’s going on there. So I love that.

 

Yeah, totally. So, um, and it can really help us just be, again, connected to our body, to our intuition, to our soul. Um, have that gen when that’s generally there. It’s, that’s when we want to like, really, um, use our manifestation powers and, um, stuff like that and make those really cool decisions from a grounded space.

 

You know, not to say that we can’t make powerful decisions when we’re dysregulated, right. Or when we’re . You know, like hyper aroused. Like if I am in fight or flight because I see a kid about to get run over by a bus, like I’m gonna, I can still make a powerful decision to go get him outta the way, right.

 

No. Yeah.

 

So we don’t wanna get into this either or space, but I would say generally, if [00:31:00] possible, um, that’s what I like to aim for. But you know, like if someone’s in an abusive marriage or an abusive situation or something like that, we, that’s not where we just figure out how to, like . We don’t, we, we don’t always have the luxury to down regulator or upregulate ourselves into that window to make the powerful decisions.

 

But that doesn’t mean we can’t also make powerful decisions when we’re dysregulated as well.

 

Right. Like I was just writing in, like I’m working on a book right now and I was writing about an example where like a principal walks in and they are having a surprise observation. You can’t just be like, okay, sorry, class and principal. I’m going to do some meditation right now to regulate myself. You know, there are moments where you can’t just do that right then.

 

So, um, that’s not to say that we. Have to always stop right in the moment. But when we are able to, like, let’s say we get through the observation or like afterwards you save the kid from the bus or whatever, and you’re very like, it doesn’t, all of a sudden you’ve saved the kid, suddenly those feelings are gone.

 

That’s not the case, right? [00:32:00] Like . So what do we do when we are in a space where we can downregulate?

 

Oh it, I mean it totally depends on what that person experienced. Like there are like 300,000 ways to down regulate there are millions of, like, there are just tons of ways to But what I usually will say is like, you can check in with your body and see what it needs to complete the stress response cycle.

 

So, um. You know, with the, with the hurricane Katrina victims, a lot of them were, you know, they were stranded during a flood and it’s like their fight flight, their, like, their nervous system or their sympathetic response was obviously like run, run, run. Like get away, get away, get away. But they

 

Mm-Hmm.

 

away ’cause of the water.

 

Um, and then even when they were rescued, I think a lot of ’em were like, kind of had to be strapped in or carried out. And so. For the people who weren’t able to get that flight response, [00:33:00] um, like out of their system, they did experience higher incidences of PTSD versus the people in the World Trade Center who were able, who were able to run

 

Oh yeah. Yeah.

 

that out of their system.

 

Right. And so I think a lot of times when we. Um, you know, and if there’s an event where we can’t do the thing that we wish we could do at the moment, like, I might be driving on the freeway and, and something happens and I might have to keep driving to get to safety before blank, blank, blank, right?

 

Usually it’s more of just like a check in, like, how can I complete this response? Going to shake my arms a little bit. Do I need to like dance it out? Do I need to just sit and like sway? Like it could be so many different things.

 

That’s such a good point. I, again, we’re also different, so we’re going to need to, regulate ourselves differently too. But, but such a good point. That whole story about the Katrina victims where they obviously weren’t able to run versus the, nine 11 [00:34:00] victims and. Just how even individual experiences that people have, like it affect how we’re able to complete that stress cycle.

 

I’ve actually been reading the book Burnout by the Naski Sisters and Ugh, so good. I’m like, I, I love, I love them. They’re great. But yeah, really good. Okay, so we have also kind of touched on this too, but . like as we’ve been going. But we do have a mostly female audience listening to this podcast where they surveyed, last time.

 

I mean, it was about a year ago, but I bet it hasn’t changed. It was 97% self-identified in the survey as female. And I mean, I’m not surprised by that. When you look at the podcast name, it is wife, teacher, mommy, the podcast. But, what do you think are some unique challenges with this, that women face that are different

 

Oh, that’s such a good question. And you know what just popped up for me? As you were saying that, like as far as, um, [00:35:00] yeah, just as far as being conditioned as women or socialized as women, um. I don’t know why this dropped in, but I’m just gonna say it ’cause I think , there’s, there’s a reason for it and I’ll ex, I’ll explain it in a second, but my, so my husband is a sexual abuse survivor, like he survived.

 

Um. That’s what he refers himself as because of some childhood trauma there. And I remember like three or four, maybe even five years after he had kind of like spoken up about it to, you know, certain groups of people. I remember just saying like, I’m, I’m really surprised by how many people believed you and, and that’s all I said.

 

And he said, yeah. He’s like, I think it’s ’cause I’m a man. and my, I was just like, my body, my heart was like, Ooh, like. I think he’s right. Like, ugh, like I hate it. It does, it doesn’t mean that he didn’t get any pushback, but I, [00:36:00] he’s like, I think it’s ’cause I’m male. And so I would say for women, the rea the things that I’m going to say, um, there is a reason there.

 

There’s a reason for why we have a hard time believing that it’s real for ourselves because so many times, um, first of all, we. Inherit police systems and things like that. Um, and we, we can inherit, you know, trauma can pass down through generation, like seven generations. And so I think there’s a history of women either who speak up and get silenced, or women who speak up and get isolated.

 

Women who speak up get killed, and so. It, we don’t want, it feels hard to believe, to allow ourselves to believe that something to happen that happened to us is real. So I think, I think that can play a big part in it. And, um, so I think I see that as a struggle just believing like, this is real and it happened to me, but so often the more you understand your body, the more you, [00:37:00] you know, even for my, my partner, whenever he would deny his trauma.

 

His depression, anxiety symptoms would just like skyrocket. And then when validate his lived experience, like things would kind of calm back down. And so letting yourself believe that your lived experience gets to be yours is a big thing. And, and if it feels hard to do, just know that that’s totally normal.

 

Um. . And I think just not discounting it once you see it, because we have a tendency as women to really self gaslight and sometimes we can like believe that it’s real, but then when we’re activated, we tend to question ourselves. But the narratives question ourselves with are generally the narratives that we internalize growing up that aren’t necessarily true.

 

Um, so that’s a big thing. And I would just say one other thing is like. As women being willing to invest in your healing and get support and learn how to receive [00:38:00] help,

 

I think, I think this is true. Women, um, . And I mean, I’ve seen this in myself too, struggling to invest with my husband. Like he might even be more supportive about me doing it than I am with myself doing it.

 

And also like when I’m doing a webinar or something, I’ll see so many people who like want to sign up for like our coaching program or whatever, but they’re like, oh, I need to ask my husband about it. But then like, you know, a lot of the times they like, oh, he’ll just say no, so I’m not going to, it’s hard to be like, I wanna help everybody else around me. I can’t invest this money in myself getting healing. So I I’ve too.

 

Before joining YF Teacher MommyCub, I was on my own with any challenges I faced. I didn’t have anyone outside of my school that I could necessarily, like, talk to. That was all on me. I joined YF Teacher MommyCub because there are just so many resources available to club members. Classroom resources and the personal side with the coaching.

 

That is a huge resource that I did not have prior to joining the club. And it’s been really [00:39:00] great getting an outside perspective on problems and issues that I might be facing. It really helps me to see them from another perspective. Uh, for me, Wife Teacher Mommy Club offers more than just the resources.

 

It has that coaching component and it has. Facebook group and the community component and all those things together help me in my job as a teacher. I’m not just trying one thing. I want all of the things and Life Teacher Mommy gives that to me.

 

You know, something like that. And so I think being, like, when my, when my husband first got sick, I was so willing to like, throw all financial resources in his way and I had a really tr like a trusted loved one who was like, um, what about you?

 

Yeah.

 

Like, do you need a, do you wanna go see a therapist?

 

I was like, there’s no way. I don’t wanna spend the money, kids, blah, blah. Like, how do I find babysitters? And um, but really, like, once I started investing in my healing, whether [00:40:00] it was through a therapist or through coaches or things like that, that’s when things got a lot better for me. Like the trajectory got a lot better, a lot faster.

 

So we’re meant to be supported. We are meant we’re relational species. We are not meant to heal or do this or hustle alone or, or hustle to the top alone. We are meant to rely on each other. And so just recognize in our biology,

 

Yeah.

 

and just it’s like not resist it, just allow for it when it comes to safe people offering help.

 

Yeah, and we, I mean, I was listening recently to, I’m in Bev Aaron, one of Bev Aaron is coaching program. She’s amazing. And she did a workshop that like relationships are not neutral and we are actually like, we are biologically wired for . Connection. And so a lot of times that’s where the trauma comes in.

 

It’s not just like, oh, they said these things and I can think what I want about it. Because if it’s somebody who we’re deeply wanting to connect with, then it doesn’t serve us necessarily to call it neutral, [00:41:00] you know,

 

Mm-Hmm. . Yeah, for sure.

 

what can we do with this, like knowledge about basically everything we talked about with trauma and the ways that we might . Be helping ourselves get through that.

 

Um, I would say like, just go really easy on yourself in the beginning because anytime, any awareness that you’re gaining or gleaning from this podcast episode is already. Creating like you’re already creating and developing new neural pathways. And so if there’s way to just nonjudgmentally and compassionately observe yourself, your behavior responses, I think that’s a great way, great place to start and just be really gentle and question and see what’s there and, and kind of just see what your next steps are really like.

 

It sounds really like, like that’s it. I want like all the answers, but, but really just like being willing to notice an emotion can reduce the intensity. Of the emotion up to 40%. So you might be [00:42:00] surprised at how much changes by just practicing notice, like practicing the art of noticing and being more of a watcher of your experience with love and compassion.

 

Um, and then see what goes from there. So that’s one way.

 

I, I love that. And it, it really is like we don’t have to feel, a lot of times we think like, oh, I see this problem. I need to fix it Right now. I think especially as women, we want to be problem solvers. We want to make sure that, you know, . We take care of the thing. And I think that a lot of times it’s just one step at a time, and sometimes that might feel painful.

 

It’s like, oh, but I wanna make this progress. Like now I know I need to do it, but it’s like, oh. Whatever trauma or experience we have, it’s taken time to get to where we are. course it’s going to take time to, it’s just like when we have a baby and it’s not like, you know, all of a sudden like we are and not that we ever need to get back to where we were.

 

Like, I mean, it’s different, like, [00:43:00] and it’s the same with healing. We’re going to but get to an even better place

 

yeah, like the nervous system doesn’t like to be rushed. And so if you are trying to like, find a shortcut to healing, um, your nervous system is gonna pick up on that pressure and it’s gonna resist like the very thing that like you’re trying to offer it. And so just really lovingly. Letting it take, you know, of I, and to me, I’m, I’m a fan of having professional support and peer support.

 

Um, and while also like letting your body do its thing on its own timeline, because it, it really, and when I say your body, I’m, I’m speaking a little bit, speaking a little bit, I’m speaking more to your body and then your body’s intelligence and knowing and when it’s time to heal certain things versus like

 

You know, wounds and things like that, that don’t want anything to change and don’t want you to like, just wanna maintain homeostasis because it’s familiar, not necessarily because [00:44:00] it’s comfortable. And so I am a believer that our body knows when to look at or process something. Um. And so I like to take a forward facing approach to that, uh, to my healing and growth and just being proactive about the life that I want and what I wanna create, and trusting that whatever’s meant to come up will.

 

And, um, it, it does and I, and I work through and I have support. And I work through my, you know, traumas and past wounds so differently now because I know what they are. I know how to hone in on them. I know how to love on them. I know how to process them. I know when it makes sense to bring in other people to support me with the releasing.

 

Um, so yeah, it doesn’t mean my life is like trauma free now, but it’s so different than how I used to handle things, you know, 10 years ago with resistance and ignoring and pushing through and, uh, and. Thinking I could extra exercise my way out of, away from anything, you know? And so yeah, it’s, it’s different, but, um, I just [00:45:00] feel so much more connected to myself now than did back then.

 

Yeah. I think it’s just trusting in that timing and understanding that your, your intuition is going to guide you in the direction you need to go, and that the journey is part of it. It’s not like. There’s not a destination we need to get to. It’s all about who we are becoming all along the way, and just the like little 1% improvements are adding up.

 

And the neuro pathways, just from like listening to this podcast or you know, subscribing to Lindsay’s podcast or continuing to listen to this podcast are going to help you like little bit by little bit to help you figure out what you need because you can do it. My friend listening right now,

 

we’ve talked a lot about healing ourselves, which is usually what I talk about more here actually, because I feel like, again, we focus, tend to focus a lot on, you know, our kids or our students or our husbands or partners or whatever. But, um I do still [00:46:00] want to touch on how being trauma informed as a teacher or as a parent, can help us like.

 

Like, just knowing about trauma can help us be a better teacher. Like we kind of talked about earlier in the podcast, and I know you’ve said this before, and it just really is like, oh yeah, if you work with people you work with trauma, it’s like, you know, there’s no like, okay, oh, I have a class full of 30 students.

 

There’s no trauma here. You know, there’s, there’s going to be. So what do you think is important for us to know as we’re working with kids?

 

Oh, it’s such a good question. Um, you know, with kids a lot of times, I think the big thing is, is like making sure you don’t. Um, establish identities for them based on their behavior. Like a lot of their behavioral click responses are pretty instinctual based on whatever something they’ve experienced, right?

 

Of course, you know, our, these kids have prefrontal cortexes and things like that. But, um, I just feel like [00:47:00] having so much compassion, like compassion for, for behavior and also setting boundaries and sometimes, um, it’s easier to just Set boundaries specific to the event versus like letting, um, taking everything personally that kids do and things like that.

 

So just sticking to circumstance and boundary versus like letting it mean some big thing about who the kid is and how good or bad they are and blah, blah, blah. And also have, letting it not mean anything about you, um, because.

 

Mm-Hmm.

 

Like they go through a lot of stuff and, and they are, yes, they’re resilient, but they’re also very impressionable.

 

And so,

 

Yeah.

 

I mean, in my eyes it’s like, how can we just love them while maintaining boundaries really, and make sure they know that they’re good.

 

Yeah, I love that. Just showing them love and understanding and compassion and yeah, and we do need to [00:48:00] have boundaries sometimes as well. That’s really important to know how and when to hold those so we can take care of ourselves, so we can be there for them. That’s, I mean, yeah.

 

And if there’s a kid that’s like particularly triggering, depending, you know, if, if a lot of the people listening like have classrooms, like it might be a window or a green screen into where there’s some work for you, right? Like maybe there is some, some sort of boundary or circumstance that needs to be a boundary set or circumstance change.

 

But a lot of times our relationships are like green screens into where some of our work is to do. So not all time. I would say a lot of times, um, but I don’t say that in a way that you guys go self gaslight yourselves. It’s more

 

For sure.

 

I check in with yourself there.

 

Yeah. It’s what Gabby Bernstein would call like a universal lesson. It’s like, okay, this is a lesson coming to me so I can learn and get better from this, and have all that self-compassion and grace and non-judgment all along [00:49:00] the way.

 

Yeah, I like that.

 

Okay. Well this was so good Lindsay. I feel like we’ve covered a lot of ground here on this podcast. Thank you for sharing so much with us. Is there anything else you’d like to share before we,, kind of close off the interview portion?

 

No, I mean, I just, I love, I love being here. Thank you for having me. For anyone who wants to come, you can come find me and say hello on Instagram. I’m Lindsey Pullman Coaching and it’s P-O-E-L-M-A-N and my website’s the same, Lindsey pullman coaching.com. So, yep.

 

Awesome. Okay. And do you have any like, um, freebie opt-ins or anything you, or like free or anything you’d like to share?

 

sure. I have a few. I have a few right now that I’m doing. I have like a mini course called Feminism 1 0 1 for Christians, which is a great one to just learn about, like systems of patriarchy, uh, feminism, intersectionality, privilege and oppression and stuff like that. And, um, and then I also have one I just put out, it’s called a Gardener’s [00:50:00] Guide to Thinking.

 

Love ’cause because I feel like so many of us women, we have focused so much on everyone else that taking some time to get to know ourselves with something guided like that could be very helpful. So thank you for providing those. Okay. We get links in the show notes so you can grab those and you can, you know, go to Lindsay’s website and Instagram.

 

Thank you so much, Lindsay, for being here today. It was so much fun doing this interview with you.

 

yes. Thank you too. Take care.

 

Thank you for listening to Wife Teacher Mommy, the podcast. If you enjoyed our time together, be sure to hit subscribe so you don’t miss an episode. And if you’re ready to take the next step, I’d love for you to join me face to face of my next free virtual mindset masterclass. In this masterclass, I’ll share my full story of how I transformed my teacher overwhelm and anxiety into balance, [00:51:00] authenticity, and a true understanding of myself.

And the best news, it’ll work for you too. I’ll break down my five step framework, share inspiring stories that will help shift your mindset, and you’ll even get to see life coaching in action. You’ll get a free resource and a special opportunity just for joining us, and you won’t be able to get this anywhere else.

Did I mention this Masterclass is free? You’ve got nothing to lose. All you need to do is sign up, add it to your calendar, and commit to showing up live. Go to wifeteachmommy. com slash masterclass to sign up, or head to the link in the show notes. I will see you at the [00:52:00] Masterclass.